How to have an argument, part 1

devilhead-idiot

I’m getting pretty sick of people who can’t form a decent argument. And I don’t mean argument in the sense of shouting and finger pointing. I mean it in the debate sense.

For example, I wrote my article on Crystal Mangum and someone left a comment stating that if Crystal had been a pretty little white girl who accused three black men of raping her than they would be put into prison immediately. I had already addressed some of the racial issues present and said that no matter what race someone is, if there is no evidence of a crime, but in fact evidence that there wasn’t a crime, then it will not go to trial.

Also, I wrote, WE TV plans a documentary on kiddie beauty pageants, an article on kiddie beauty pageants which I posted on my Now Public account. At first I got comments from people who were horrified at beauty pageants and said that all pageant parents were crazy. Which I thought was a bit harsh. My article basically said that they were misguided, not insane. But then I got some angry pageant moms. I was tempted to respond to their posts, but seriously, I’d just be repeating myself.

Let me elaborate (their comments are in italics, excerpts from my original article are in []:

I KNOW SOME OF THESE GIRLS IN THE PHOTOS AND THEY LOVE DOING PAGEANTS, 

[But if nothing else, stage moms cling to the idea that their daughters love performing in pageants and wouldn’t want to give it up for the world. Most children I know want to eat ice cream for every meal, but that doesn’t mean that it’s a good idea. Children are not supposed to make huge decisions on their own, that’s why they have parents.]

ITS GREAT FOR THE GIRLS, THEY LEARN TO SPEAK IN FRONT OF LOTS OF PEOPLE IN INTERVIEW AND BUILD THERE CONFIDANCE ON STAGE.

[But just as some children can be crowned and take a triumphant strut down a catwalk, some girls walk away with nothing. In Painted Babies some girls start crying on stage because they didn’t win. They know that they’ve let down their parents, that they’re not as special/pretty/talented as another girl, that they haven’t won any money. Putting a child under that kind of pressure can create serious self-worth issues.]

MY DAUGHTER WAS VERY SHY AND WHEN SHE GETS ON THAT STAGE SHE TURNS INTO THIS LITTLE OUTGOING DOLL BABY. AND WHAT LITTLE GIRL DOSNT LIKE PLAYING DRESS UP? 

[In the end, children love attention. They want to feel special and they want to please their parents. What little girl wouldn’t want to be in front of a room of people who clap and cheer for them?]

She actually compares her daughter to a doll. Her daughter gets on stage and she becomes an inanimate object that meant to be played with and dressed up.

ALSO LOOK AT THE OLDER MISS AMERICAS AND MISS USA CONTESTANTS, THEY ALL GO ON TO DO GREAT THINGS FOR THEMSELVES AND CHARITYS . IF YOU DONT LIKE THEM THEN DONT WATCH IT, BUT NOT ALL THE FAMILYS INVOLVED IN PAGEANTS ARE NUTS. 

Lay off the goddamn caps lock! The thing I’m most worried about is the idea that this parent is supposed to be teaching their child and they don’t know how to use proper grammar. I’m not being picky here, they didn’t even bother with spell check.

My child is a kid, she goes to school, takes dance classes, and also is interested in cheerleading.

Yes. And?

She is also a pageant girl and loves it. The day she wants to quit she can, but as for right now she wants to do this and she will.

[But when parents are too sucked into the pageant world themselves, they pretend that their daughter is the one responsible for their continued work in the pageant sector. Nothing like claiming that a six year old controls the lives of several adults that are supposed to be teaching and guiding her.]

Do not make false statesmants about her or any other child as you dont know them or have any idea. You only know what you hear and that is second hand information and not the real truth.

My section on resources:

[WE TV is planning on filming a documentary on child beauty pageants entitled Little Miss Perfect. It’s supposed to be a look into the Southern pageant circuit. Three other documentaries have already been made about these little beauty queens; Living DollsPainted Babies (as well as Painted Babies 2, a follow up several years later) and Little Beauties.]

None of the pageant documentaries are the “real truth” (which is redundant anyway)? If this isn’t an accurate representation, then what is?

Also my daughter does resemble herself when she is “made-up”, this person is only showing one side of it,

Don’t refer to me as “this person.” My name is Star. It’s very, very obvious that my name is Star. The use of “this person” implies that the pageant mom isn’t actually addressing me but instead is responding to the other commenters.

what do these girls look like in normal life? pretty much the same but with no make up.

[Beauty is one thing, but when the pageant picture doesn’t resemble the original girl but instead looks like a CGI image for a new Pixar film, things have obviously gotten out of hand. But let’s face it. In real life the girls don’t look like this.]

If the girls look the same then why bother with the makeup at all?

Grow up, get a life, focus on your own children and leave mine alone. She is none of your business. 

I didn’t mention the names of any children in the pageants, yet this woman takes my article as a personal attack on her and her parenting skills. If she’s that touchy about the subject then it might be her own paranoia. Not to mention that I don’t even have kids. I don’t need to have given birth to someone to know that dressing them up like a show pony and prancing them around stage isn’t the best for their self-esteem and individuality.  Also, I am so sick of people saying “grow up.” Because that’s really the height of maturity, isn’t it?

.. my daughter is in pageants and does not wear a lot of makeup… 

Despite all evidence to the contrary.

none of the children in her age group does.. 

Despite all evidence to the contrary.

if they do then they dont win. 

Despite all evidence to the contrary.

she is 2 and i dont apply makeup and she wears her hair down and pulled back out of her face.. 

Oh good, she doesn’t put make up on her 2 year old. That makes it all better.

there is no certain way i make her walk.. i just put her on stage and let her do whatever she wants… if u ask her she will tell you she likes it.. 

See the above comment about kids liking pageants..

and i mean hell she even wins money for it.. 

[The child’s mother wants to enter the daughter into a pageant where one of the prizes is a car because her grandmother needs one. It’s not only sad that parents would exploit their vulnerable children for cash, it’s even worse that they are so blatant and casual about it.]

and not all pageants are LONG some are like a two hour thing.. 

I never said that they were.

and i mean i have seen the jonbenet ramsey kids and seen the stupid pageant moms that make their child go through all of that torture but you have to keep in mind not EVERYONE is like that… 

I never said that they were.

just like not EVERYONE is voting for the same person today some people just like them for fun.. why would someone ban it… its like saying that we are banning football because women dont agree with it or we just wont take score!

Football has no comparison with beauty pageants. The issues I pointed out with pageants are about the sexuality of children.

[There’s something overtly wrong about dressing up five year old girls to look like thirty year old women.]

[Even in their shows the girls look like the same bizarre mixture of innocence and misplaced sexuality.]

[Mothers even admit that the judgments are completely subjective and based on whatever the judges are partial to or even how they’re feeling that day. So their decisions about these little girls are made based on whims and the girls who lose, lose because they’re not what the judge “likes”. Isn’t it a little creepy that the judges decide what kind of six year old girl they prefer?]

you should really do more research on pageants before you say negative things about them.. 

So NONE of the documentaries I view are accurate? NONE of the website resources I looked at are accurate? Isn’t this the same thing as Crystal Mangum claiming that no one has a right to state anything about her if they didn’t interview her directly?

NOT EVERY PAGEANT IS HOW YOU DESCRIBED THEM… 

I never said that they were. If the pageants are different than what I’m writing about then I’m obviously not writing about those types of pageants.

THEY HAVE BEGINNER LEVEL, INTERMEDIATE LEVELS, AND NATIONAL LEVELS!!!

What does this have to do with anything?

See what I mean?